Pinball Industry
topic"I also think it's really strange in pinball where a game gets revealed, a game gets announced, a company takes your money, like Chicago Gaming Company, nine months go by, and you still don't have your cactus canyon LE. I don't like that... Don't take money from people when you still are like six to eight months from manufacturing."
Companies shouldn't take money and announce games 6-8 months before manufacturing
"why is it that all of these companies keep staffing up in the design department, but it's clearly the manufacturing department that they need to staff up?"
Pinball companies are wasting money hiring multiple designers when they can't manufacture games fast enough
"without a doubt the greatest talent in pinball is over at stern pinball. I would say the second greatest talent is over at Jersey Jack...We've over emphasized the accessories and the reason why we've over emphasized the accessories because we're not blown away by what's on the playfield"
Stern Pinball has the greatest talent in pinball, Jersey Jack second, but focus should be on magic under the glass not accessories
"People, the takeaway is this. Don't ever buy a game ever again with a non-refundable deposit. I will never do it again. I will never, ever do it again."
Never buy pinball games with non-refundable deposits again
"I don't like having to fund a pinball company's operation for 8 months, 9 months, 10 months before I get my toy, I want to buy a toy that's ready to go into my home within a month or two"
Pinball companies shouldn't make customers fund their operations for 8-10 months - they should get bank loans or investors instead
"I'm absolutely floored that there's absolutely no musical diversity in pinball. And if you think about music that would be great for a pinball experience, I think hip hop, rap, and pop music would absolutely make for an incredible pinball machine."
Pinball lacks musical diversity - no hip hop or pop music themes
"I don't want to be friends with the Pinball manufacturers. I don't think it's necessary for me to be friends with the manufacturers because they have their own destiny in their hands."
Consumer advocacy is more important than being nice to manufacturers
"I feel that if you remove Godzilla from 2021, it was probably one of the worst years in pinball for all of us when it comes to these games and these manufacturers."
2021 was one of the worst years in pinball history if you remove Godzilla - only one noteworthy game in an entire year
"the whole reason why we look at games now and say, well, when the code's done, it's going to be awesome. No, that only happens when Lyman is on it... That's never going to happen anymore, because the guy who did that was Lyman Sheats Jr.."
Code won't save bad games anymore because only Lyman could do that
"When it comes to cars, you get what you pay for. When it comes to pinball, you don't really get what you pay for. When you pay $15,000 or $20,000 for an Elvira 40th, you don't get nearly what you're paying for. You don't. You get some manufactured scarcity, but they're not putting more in the game."
With cars you get what you pay for, but with pinball you don't really get what you pay for
"At these prices, the lack of creativity is somewhat comical."
Lack of creativity in modern pinball games is comical given the high prices
"If you buy in at these prices, I really do think you're buying at the highest these games will ever be. pinball just won't be a hobby in which LEs are trading consistently for $15,000 to $20,000. I'm sorry because what's going to happen is newer games are going to keep coming out that are half the price and the games are going to be better."
Current pinball prices are unsustainable and buyers should be patient
"everything's going to go down market. It just is."
Current pinball market has inflated prices that will eventually come down
"You don't want to be in a creative industry where your creativity doesn't really matter. You're still going to sell your artwork, right? That's what's happening. These aren't even like pinball machines anymore. They're being traded like works of art."
The current pinball market is upside down where creativity doesn't matter because games sell regardless of quality
"I don't want to buy a product and be a beta tester who's already paid in full. I think all of you are also beta testing this game with the company. I want a product to be beta tested before it's released to the public."
Customers shouldn't be beta testers for $9-10k pinball machines
"They want to say I'm a hypocrite. They want to say this. They want to say that what they don't want to do. They don't want to have me on their shows to ever talk about this stuff because they're because they're friends with all the manufacturers"
"And I mean, it's the overwhelming pressure by the industry and my peers in the content creation world, the overwhelming pressure is for me to go away. Is for me to shut up is for me to be canceled. And you see it. They want to say I'm a hypocrite."
"the overwhelming pressure is for me to go away. Is for me to shut up is for me to be canceled"
Industry pressure to cancel or silence the show
"I want to see the most amazing, magical and wonderful worlds under glass delivered to us for the amount of money we are spending on these games"
Mission to demand magical worlds under glass for the high prices
"you could probably charge 25k a pop and they'd sell out in one day... Stern did it with SLE's 80 Batman and 50 Elvira nobody else has even tried it"
Pinball manufacturers should create ultra-limited special editions with extreme craftsmanship at much higher prices
"I'm probably going to end up just going to Jack Bar more and playing pinball machines on location more than I ever did before because I just don't feel the need to own these machines. I don't want to tie up $20,000 in two games."
Pinball is now too expensive and location play is becoming more attractive than ownership
"I'm just a little bit tired... this hobby has become so expensive that our expectations should be super high and I just don't believe deep down inside in Kaneda's gut that these games are delivering at these price points"
Frustrated with the entire pinball industry pricing and burnout
"Unnecessary toy for rich men who have money to burn. I mean, that legitimately is the new inbox pinball market."
New in-box pinball market is now just unnecessary toys for wealthy men with money to burn
"if you think there's enough space in the pinball industry to have this many companies you're wrong the only way that it works the only way it works is if each of these companies deliver stellar products"
Too many pinball companies - some will fail, need stellar products to survive
"I'm trying off by saying this, the majority of modern pinball machines are mediocre. You know that. I know that. The distributors don't want you to feel that way. The companies don't want you to feel that way, but the majority of these games are mediocre compared to what we know can go into a pinball machine."
Most modern pinball machines are mediocre compared to what's possible
"Lyman Sheats leaving Stern pinball is arguably much bigger news than Steve Ritchie joining Jersey Jack pinball. It is."
Lyman Sheats leaving Stern Pinball is much bigger news than Steve Ritchie joining Jersey Jack
"I'm so tired of the same names over and over and over again... There's got to be somebody who's young and hungry that can out design these two guys"
Pinball needs young, hungry designers instead of recycling the same old names
"it's almost like your theme is a mistake if people need to wait to see the game. I know that's crazy. That sounds absolutely counterintuitive to what pinball is. But as a marketer, that would be my goal. I wanna put themes out into the pinball world in which we could sell this theme out before people ever see it"
Theme selection is so important that games should sell out before people even see the layout
"this is why as a marketer, I work on major brands and not for pinball companies because pinball companies don't really get marketing yet. They really don't. They really don't get it. They don't get it"
Pinball companies don't really understand marketing yet
"There is basically nothing you could have today other than P3 multimorphic. There's nothing and I don't even know if there's a delay getting those games because all of these titles and all of these companies are back logged"
The pinball industry has a supply crisis - no new games available despite multiple upcoming titles
"The things they would value would be the stuff that makes the actual game better. But they are not valuing that stuff"
The pinball industry is investing money in vanity items like toppers and armor instead of gameplay improvements
"We're at a point now where it's no longer about the fun. This is now like college tuition prices for one pinball machine"
Pinball has jumped the shark with current pricing, no longer about fun
"I would love an Abba Pinball machine. Then I still would love a Phantom of the Opera, Android Weber machine because it's always the same classic rock category... if you made a Madonna Pinball machine every single person out there is probably a fan of her music... a Spice Girls Pinball machine to celebrate their 25th anniversary. That would sell like hotcakes."
Music-themed pinball machines should diversify beyond classic rock and hair metal
"we're in a little bit of a bubble right now... And my recommendation to everyone is always been this. Just wait it out, wait it out... there hasn't been that same level of elevation in mechanical magic in these games."
Current pinball pricing bubble is unsustainable - recommends waiting it out
"But imagine if the best games of yesteryears could also provide new experiences with software updates And I'm shocked no one's done it before and I predict it's gonna happen very soon in the near future in the pinball world."
Prediction: Software updates for older pinball games to provide new experiences will happen very soon in the near future in the pinball world.
"I'm gonna say this right now a quality product is more important than a magical product. I would rather have a pinball machine that actually holds together"
Quality products are more important than magical products
"only one company in the entire world of pinball can make at least one game a year and you know who it is it's Stern Jersey Jack cannot make more than one game a year spooky pinball not more than one game a year Chicago gaming company hasn't made a new game in two years"
Most pinball companies can't efficiently execute even one game per year
"Who does it benefit keeping a title a secret? It benefits only the manufacturers. It doesn't help out other people in the community. It doesn't help people out who might not want to spend their money on this game if they knew that other game was coming out. So why is it as a community? We're always looking out for the companies and not the community."
Community should know about upcoming pinball releases, not keep them secret for manufacturers
"the three horse race is really what's driving pinball right now everybody else everybody else is just lagging behind"
Three companies now dominate pinball - Stern, Jersey Jack, and Spooky
"I was talking to a friend the other day and I said right now pinball is really just a three horse race... To me, pinball is Stern, Jersey Jack, and Spooky. And that's it"
Current pinball industry is essentially a three-horse race
"If you are transparent, people forget that you said games are going to ship in four to six weeks once the order banks close. If you are transparent, people are willing now to wait months later than you promise them games all because you were transparent."
Transparency doesn't absolve companies from missing delivery promises in pinball
"This is the biggest problem in pinball today. There is too much of an emphasis on scoring and the people that are making these games are tournament players who love scoring and so much of the game is designed around the rule set... And not enough of pinball is designed around magical moments."
Modern pinball focuses too much on scoring instead of magical moments
"If I had to pick one word, I think the most important thing in this industry, the thing that this industry needs the most, it's passion. Passion is something that you can't just create out of thin air. Passion is something that doesn't come just because you throw money at a Pinball project."
Passion is the most important thing in pinball - more important than money, experience, or connections
"I think as buyers of pinball, it is up to us to put our foot down and say we're not going to do this. We're not going to lock our money in until we see this game and we know we want this game."
Consumers should refuse non-refundable deposits on pinball machines before seeing gameplay
"for these prices, for these prices, we should expect nothing less than the best... You're charging me $9,200. I don't care. There are no excuses. This game better be freaking amazing."
At current pinball prices ($6-13k), there should be no excuses for mediocre games
"I do think Eric Meunier and Keith Elwin. Those are the two guys now. They're the two Kings. The two Kings in Pinball are Eric Meunier and Keith Elwin"
Eric Meunier and Keith Elwin are now the two kings of pinball design
"this is the new pinball you absolutely get no chance to play your machines before you buy them it's kind of unfortunate it really is why it's sad there's no shows going on right now"
Modern pinball buying is unfortunate because you can't play games before purchasing them
"The moment you do your victory lap the moment you can congratulate yourself on your accomplishment... It isn't the moment sales open it's the moment games ship"
Victory laps should happen when games ship, not when sales open
"I don't think that the companies have a duty to announce their production schedule every week to the general public. That's their business and really whose responsibility that that is to communicate with the customer base, that's the distributor"
Pinball companies don't owe the public weekly production updates - that's the distributor's job
"to me pinball is simple. It's a simple game... A pinball machine for the amount of money it costs should be complete the moment you open up the box"
Pinball should be simple - complete games delivered in boxes without complexity