Pinball Industry

"for $2,000 you can get the greatest gaming system with the best TVs on the market what are we doing spending $6,000, $13,000 on a single pinball machine"

Pinball prices are insane compared to other entertainment - $22,000 for two games vs $2,000 for Xbox and OLED TV

"But we don't need too many more kitty themes. We don't. I don't need Pac-Man. I really hope Jurassic Jack pinball is not considering Pac-Man. We don't want the Muppets. I don't. I don't want a Muppets pinball."

Don't need more kiddy themes like Pac-Man or Muppets - need more 80s/90s action themes

"why would these companies in a global pandemic world why would they travel the shows in 2021 in which we all know even if there's a vaccine it's not going to be administered to people like you and me first"

Pinball shows are unnecessary - companies sold record numbers without attending any shows in 2020

"I think the changes that have been made over the years have led this hobby as prices have increased the methods by which they're making these games have become cheaper and they've invested in expensive machines that make it cheaper and faster to make these games but at what cost at the cost of the quality of these machines"

The pinball industry has gotten cheaper manufacturing methods as game prices have increased

"The companies that have the games we all want have the lowest quality and the companies that have the greatest quality, God why can we just have both"

Companies with best themes have worst quality, companies with best quality have themes nobody wants

"This is the new world order of pinball. And every other game is gonna be compared to this game."

Guns N' Roses represents the new world order of pinball

"a brand new company like deeproot that has never shipped anything before to anyone before we've never seen the games we've never seen if they can manufacture we've never seen the quality they have no credibility at all at all. So nobody nobody's going to pre order games with a brand new company"

Different pinball companies need different playbooks - new companies must prove manufacturing ability while established ones don't

"I really think we're getting to the point now with such a fast cadence of machines that you guys don't even have time to like absorb these games learn these rules get good at these games by the time you actually understand these games the next game is out"

Fast cadence of pinball releases doesn't allow players time to absorb and learn games

"there's a lot of crooks and thieves in this hobby. The amount of men that go into pinball that have no idea what they're doing and take people's money never ceases to amaze me"

There are many crooks and thieves in the pinball industry

"I'm not quite sure there are backgrounds in marketing. I'm not quite sure they understand how marketing fully works. They really, they haven't, you gotta remember, these guys have not had experience with product launches."

Pinball marketers lack proper product launch experience and background

"A world in which young kids can barely find jobs. A world in which young kids can barely pay for school. What do you think this generation is going to grow up and see the value in a pinball machine for six to $12,000? People are out of your minds."

Young generation won't buy $6-12k pinball machines due to economic reality

"I ask people, point blank, name me an innovation in the last 20 or 30 years in pinball. The answer is always LEDs. When I push and I push and I push, I ask again and again, and no one can ever name me what I think is a real innovation."

No real innovation in pinball for 20-30 years except LEDs

"every single game that comes out is always somewhat of a compromise. We just can't have it all. You get great theme, great theme, integration, but the shots are clunky. You get clunky game like Batman 66. And the theme is perfect. And the integration is perfect. I don't know why we just can't get everything put into one package. There's always a compromise in this industry."

Every pinball game is a compromise - can't have great theme and great gameplay together

"How many of you are underwhelmed by the pinball games that are available today? And unanimously, everyone said they are."

Most people are underwhelmed by current pinball offerings and want alternatives to Stern

"I don't think pinball is going to come back and be as healthy as it was before this and I'd be willing to bet my money on the fact that a lot of pinball companies that weren't successful before this are gonna struggle"

Pinball industry won't bounce back to previous levels after COVID-19 pandemic

"I wouldn't be surprised if half of these pinball companies go away"

Half of pinball companies won't survive the pandemic - only quality manufacturers with strong demand will make it

"do we really need five six seven eight companies making pinball machines most of which are making mediocre games most of which have been riding high on on this hype train approach to these toys now we really don't"

We don't really need 5-8 pinball companies making mostly mediocre games

"at the very bottom of the essentials list is the number one non essential thing and that's pinball it almost feels ridiculous to be thinking about or worrying about the state of the pinball industry"

Pinball is completely non-essential and companies are at risk

"going to all these shows, that flying around the country with your game and flying around the world with your product to show people a reveal has always been somewhat pointless and unnecessary."

Pinball shows are unnecessary - online reveals work better

"90 days is the biggest key in all of pinball. You have 90 days to reveal your game, to create hype, and to sell as many of those games as you can in a 90 day window."

90 days is the critical hype window for pinball reveals

"You can't fact check rumors. So the whole notion of fact checking rumors is a name. Here's why because no manufacturer out there will confirm for you if your rumor is correct or not."

You can't fact-check rumors because manufacturers won't confirm them

"I think this is the beginning I think you're gonna see DLC coming from stern in the future oh games done games at 1.0 oh you want more modes we're gonna charge you money why wouldn't they do that"

This sets a dangerous precedent for DLC-style pinball features

"Why can't manufacturers charge us more for better themes, but charges more if they put all the assets we want from that theme into the game? Who out there would not have spent another 500 to a thousand dollars per Willy Wonka if you could get all the assets the way you wanted them?"

Manufacturers should charge different prices based on theme quality and assets included

"this hobby is so oversaturated you you you you really can't you can't have the hot game for very long"

The hobby is oversaturated with too many games coming out at once

"I think creativity in this hobby is sorely lacking. It is. There's just no way that this is all it can be. And because we've seen better, we've seen more creative thinking with games."

Creativity in pinball hobby is sorely lacking - games are uninspired and cheaper than they should be

"this is great like this is great... every time I saw like another toy another this another that it just means they know that they have to give you enough to convince you not to buy a jersey jack or a willy-wanko or a stern machine... all of this competition it is going to drive the quality of pinball up"

Competition from deeproot will force all pinball companies to improve their products

"comparing BLE Williams real world testing to this and saying it's a smart move doesn't really hold water here... what I think people are forgetting is that back in the mid-90s when BLE Williams did that they were not trying to sell games to a home audience they were simply putting games out on location... they also did that before the internet existed"

Comparing deeproot's public testing to BLE Williams doesn't hold water in today's market

"we now are just laying over and allowing these pinball companies to charge such high amounts of money and not giving us anything"

Pinball companies are charging high prices without providing adequate value

"The biggest challenge for all of us for Stern for consumers for distributors is space... people are going to get to a point if they're not there already where they are just out of space to put these games"

Space limitations are the biggest threat to Stern Pinball's growth

"We're not talking about amazing mechanisms. We're not talking about seeing a ball do something we've never seen before. We're not talking about dream themes. We've sort of lost in this weird place of like all that matters is cosmetic junk that they're ripping us off for."

Modern pinball focuses too much on cosmetic add-ons instead of gameplay innovation

"why is it that when you walk up to a pinball machine it is only allowing you to play the game on one difficulty why can't you walk up to Willy Wonka or Jurassic Park or Ghostbusters or you know Elvira whatever game Star Wars why can't you walk up to a game and when you play it in the home environment it gives you the ability like a video game to select easy normal and expert modes"

Pinball games should have easy/normal/expert difficulty selection like video games

"I knew we would reach a point in which this hobby would collide between what home collectors want and what operators and tournament players get in pinball."

The pinball industry has collided between home collector demands and operator/tournament player expectations

"I wouldn't buy a game right now I wouldn't buy a game right now until you know you know until you can open it up"

Consumers should boycott new pinball purchases until playfield issues are resolved

"I don't think the goal of any pinball company in 2018, 2019 is to make the best possible pinball machine and the most magical machine ever. I think for a lot of these companies, the goal is one thing we have to make a profit"

Pinball companies prioritize profit over innovation, unlike the sushi master's pursuit of perfection

"I don't think I'm seeing pinball at its finest. Do you think that we are now seeing the world under glass better now than it ever has been before?"

Modern pinball lacks the innovation and magical mechanisms of past games

"You know there is a reckoning happening in pinball in which if you don't have a hot theme and you don't have a hot designer And you don't have a hot art package and you don't have a hot animations You don't have any money coming your way... There's no room for below average and see students anymore in the pinball hobby"

Pinball reckoning happening - no room for below average games anymore

"There is a little circle of people that know a lot about what's going on behind the scenes at pinball, in pinball. And they keep that information from you... It's such bullshit in this hobby."

Attacking inner circle for withholding information that costs collectors money

"I really want to say that somewhere around 2015, 2016, this hobby has jumped the shark. And it's jumped the shark because everyone just keeps throwing in their desires to make pinball... there are way too many games coming out. They are way too expensive and they are, it is all going to collapse on itself."

The pinball hobby jumped the shark around 2015-2016 with too many companies and expensive games - it will all collapse

"90s BLE Williams, DMDs and System 11s at least had creativity and interesting effects. It's disappointing that prices continue to rise, yet we still get little to no innovation"

Pinball still lacks innovation and creativity compared to 90s BLE Williams era

"I think it's really stupid. I think it's like this marketing decision... I wish we could have a standardization of codes."

Pinball code version numbering across manufacturers is confusing and needs standardization

"Name me another $9000 to $10,000 toy that customers buy before it's finished... It's stupid. Dubai, I watch without all the mechanisms in it... It's stupid."

The pinball pre-order system where customers buy unfinished games is stupid

"I think pinball's got another 5 to 10 good years I do then you're going to start to see people aging out... 99.9% of kids are not claiming for pinball"

Pinball only has 5-10 more good years, not decades

"I mean Stern Pinball for all of the arrows they take about making cheaper games and this or that. I'm not hearing any real quality issues at all with the recent Stern releases."

Stern has better quality control than Jersey Jack despite being considered the 'cheaper' option

"can the markets sustain all these guys. Absolutely not. No way."

The pinball market cannot sustain all current manufacturers

"complex deep rule sets in my opinion have hurt have hurt pinball they've made games not approachable"

Complex deep rule sets have hurt pinball by making games not approachable

"I think gameplay is most important, but I don't think that's where the market is right now. I think people have just gone head over heels with art. And I'm not saying that art's not important, but I think sometimes it's over, overvalued. It's disguising a lack of other stuff in the game."

Ben Heck argues gameplay is most important but market overvalues art to disguise lack of substance

"I think this is it. I think we've seen what we're going to see in terms of pinball's resurgence. I think we're at the top of the mountain. I think we can see all the different things are better going to happen in pinball. And I don't think we're going to be surprised anymore."

Pinball has reached its peak - this is as good as it gets and fatigue is setting in

"The biggest failures have happened when they have just let designers do their own thing without any oversight... You got to give the people what they want. And they're not going to tell you to your face"

Pinball companies fail because they don't do market research and let designers make games for themselves

"It is just inevitable that you'll be able to buy really great machines for a good price. And all pinball machine prices will come down. And it is going to be a buyer's market"

Pinball machine prices will inevitably come down as more games release

"I'm so tired of pinball companies all ruining the surprise. The other thing I don't think they should do and I think this is so silly that they do it. I don't know why any of these pinball companies release sort of the rule sheets of the games."

Pinball companies need to stop spoiling games with too many streams and rule sheet releases before shipping