Pinball

"It never ceases to amaze me how much content creators turn into salespeople for these companies on their own dime. Also, how much airtime they give these companies who don't even have any news. Hour and a half talking to somebody that hasn't even put anything new into the pinball world"

Content creators give too much free promotion to companies with no news

"Talk about then the collector part of the market is dead. Like it is dead"

The collector market is dead for most games except boutiques

"I am so psyched for the Pinball community because it is a buyer's market. It is a buyer's market like there has never been a buyer's market in Pinball. The prices are crashing back down, gang."

It's currently a buyer's market with pinball prices crashing down

"Just let the free market do what it will do. Just let the free market be the free market. Who would complain other than people that missed out? And that's my thing. If you missed out, you just didn't work hard enough."

Pinball scalping debate - free market approach vs regulation

"It really is a pinball thing that you can spend $15,000 on a game, right? Accessorize it out. And in six months, they're trading for 10. It's a significant loss. It's like a 40% loss in the value of the game."

Pinball has massive depreciation problem - can lose 40% value in 6 months

"There should not be any ramp in any pinball machine ever made that is difficult to hit. I don't like that. What should make a pinball machine difficult is the code, not the layout."

Ramps should never be difficult to hit in pinball - difficulty should come from code, not layout

"We are oversaturated with mediocrity. There's no other way to talk about the pinball hobby right now. We are oversaturated with mediocrity. I do believe that's gonna change. I do believe the next three years are gonna see some of the best pinball ever"

Pinball hobby is oversaturated with mediocrity but will improve in next three years

"And I think Spooky's going to defy some of the excuses other manufacturers have been making about it being a soft market and this and that. I think in the end, like I say, it's never a bad time to release a great game. And it's always a bad time to release a game people don't want."

It's never a bad time to release a great game, always bad to release one people don't want

"The number one reason people will buy a pinball machine is theme and theme alone. The themes over the last four years have predominantly sucked."

Theme matters more than layout, mechs, or artwork - it's the number one reason people buy pinball machines

"When these content creators with all the pins and their basements, the reason why they have to turn the camera on all the time is they're bored. They're bored with all the games behind them. They when they play them lonely at night in their house, that's not fun."

Content creators with basement full of pins are bored and lonely

"the boringest thing to do in the world in the short time we have on Planet Earth is to watch people stream Pinball... When you watch a pinball stream for an hour, the last thing I want to do is go buy one."

Pinball streaming is boring and counterproductive for sales

"the only good thread in all of Pinside... the best pinball content that is in the world, is looking into people's game rooms. That is what people want to see... when you get a pinball machine, it will transform your home like nothing else you buy."

Best pinball content is showing game rooms, not gameplay streams

"You know you're doing it guys. You know you're doing it. Oh yeah, this game's not bad. They would give galactic tank force. It's game's not bad. It's fun. It's fun. It's just fun. Everything's fun. It's fun."

Pinball content creators are shilling games by saying everything is 'fun' instead of giving honest reviews

"When you travel, don't play pinball. Go enjoy the culture. Go enjoy the food. Go enjoy the people. Go enjoy the scenery because pinball is available everywhere. It is absolutely a name behavior."

Don't play pinball when traveling - enjoy the local culture instead

"Everybody look, these prices are still stupid. I thought by now there would be more common sense and there's not. I think this hobby has kind of doomed itself to just thinking everything is worth this much. It's not. Stuff is not moving at these prices."

Current pinball resale prices are unrealistic and unsustainable

"Stern pros are about to hit the $3,000 to $4,000 range. All of them. I mean it. Like all of them. There is just going to be a collapsing of what the entry level price is going to be in pinball"

Pinball market is oversaturated causing price collapse to $3000-4000 range for entry level

"I'll tell you why I don't go near pinball tournaments. Because they're boring... It is like it's got the same vibes is like going into like a public bathroom in central park."

Tournaments are boring and depressing

"I think the entire collector market is over. I do. I don't think pinball collecting is even a thing anymore... King Kong LE in less than two months has already lost $2,000. It's over."

Pinball collecting is completely dead - no more value retention

"I think it's one of the worst sales tactics there can be... watching someone play Pinball is not exciting."

Pinball streaming is terrible for sales

"I think these companies now are realizing what these things are to us. They're very expensive things that we want to have them in our homes permanently."

Stern and other companies are learning what expensive games mean to collectors

"we shouldn't just say everything that comes out is awesome... That literally is the vibe of so many Pinball content creators. It's the greatest game ever. I just ordered an LE and it's never leaving my home. A week later, it's up for sale for $3,000 less."

Most pinball content creators lack authenticity in their reviews

"You ever see a pinball stream and it's like a dude. He's in a dark room and one camera's on him, one's on the playfield, one's on the screen of the game and it's all happening at once. It is the worst way, I believe, to experience a pinball machine."

Pinball streams with multiple camera angles are the worst way to experience pinball

"streaming the game always, and I mean is always, takes some of the FOMO out of wanting to own it... watching someone play pinball is not exciting. I think it's one of the worst sales tactics there can be."

Pinball streaming is ineffective and takes away FOMO from ownership

"that's been the gas lighting of this community for the last like five years. It's just funny to me, but they've been taking more out of these games and charging more money. And seemingly, that's okay with so many people reviewing the product."

Modern pinball content creators gaslight community by justifying higher prices for games with less content

"the truth about this entire hobby is that collectors are the most important audience in all of pinball. The home buyer collector is the most important audience to keep stern pinball going it's not operators it's not tournament players who want to win twenty three dollars in a translate after three hours of their lives it's home buyers."

Home collectors are the most important audience for pinball, not operators or tournament players

"I also have this strange suspicion that a lot of these content creators are not paying full retail for their games like King Kong LE. I think they're getting a discount. And I also think that is disingenuous."

Content creators get discounts and aren't transparent

"There's only been two games over the last three years that even held value. Jaws LE and Metallica remastered LE."

Only two games have held value in the last three years: Jaws LE and Metallica Remastered LE

"I want to see these people that's stern and invited. They play the game for just like a few plays. And they're all making content. How amazing it is."

Content creators at Stern events don't play games enough before making reviews

"this hobby ran for years on people buying stuff before they even played it. Before they even knew what was in the game. Times of change, gang."

The hobby has fundamentally changed from scarcity-driven to abundance

"Like how dare a content creator go on a never ending praise of a company in its games? No, but I agree, man. It's just too much. It's too much."

Harsh criticism of pinball content creators 'shilling' for Stern at King Kong reveal

"There's not a single game that has been hard to get. Like, think about it... There's only gonna be FOMO if there's 500 LEs."

No modern pinball games are actually hard to get, FOMO is manufactured

"if I were you... I think the smartest thing to do would be to wait until October of this year to make your next pinball purchase"

Wait until October to buy any pinball machine - prices will drop significantly and code will be complete

"Here's the funny part about all the pinball content creators. None of them are making any money. So they took money out of their own pockets to go to Stern Pinball to help Stern Pinball make content to help Stern Pinball make money and nobody in the pinball media is making a dime off of anything they're making."

Pinball content creators pay their own way to help manufacturers make money while earning nothing themselves

"I see some of these content creators. It's like, are they in the back pocket of distributors or what? Like, are they getting kickbacks again? Is that started up again?"

Content creators are getting kickbacks from distributors again without transparency

"But in defense of us, the community, y'all did it to yourselves. The moment you ask us for $10,000 to $15,000 for games, we're going to have much stronger opinions now than if these games were like $6,000 or $7,000."

High pinball prices ($10-15K) justify harsh community criticism

"right now the dumbest thing you could probably do with your money right now is sink it into a pinball machine"

It's stupid to buy pinball machines right now with the economy collapsing and people losing money

"These pinball companies, for the most part, have not been listening to us, to what we want, and what happens when you treat your target audience like they are not the most important part of the marketing mix."

Pinball companies are out of touch with their target audience and choosing wrong themes

"Don't store anything underneath your pinball machines. It is the ugliest thing you can possibly do. And if you if if I'm talking to you right now, after this show, go clean underneath your pinball machines."

Storing anything underneath pinball machines is one of the ugliest things you can do

"But as we all know, pinball collecting is over. Like it's kind of over the concept of like, I need to get this version of the game now, and if I grab it, I'm special... All these companies over the last three to four years have absolutely destroyed pinball collecting"

Jersey Jack's rumored unlimited CE production will destroy pinball collecting

"It's like all these white men with money are trying to turn their thousands of dollars into hundreds of dollars. I don't get it. There's no room for more. There really isn't."

Pinball market is oversaturated with too many companies and not enough demand

"This market is so oversaturated... Five years from now, a lot of us are gonna be owning Stern LEs that we paid $6,000 to $7,000 for. We're gonna be owning Jersey Jack CEs that we paid $6,000 to $7,000 for, and five years from now, there's gonna be a plethora of stuff like Stern Pros in the $3,000 range."

Pinball market is oversaturated and heading for a major value decline

"I think the big change that's happened over the last two years is the collectible side of pinball is pretty much dead. The value in all of those arbitrary collector versions, the LEs, the CEs is gone."

FOMO marketing in pinball is dead because collector versions are now depreciating assets

"the delusion, it's over. Buy what you love, play what you love, don't look at any of these games anymore as collectibles or investments. They're just not gonna hold."

Metallica Remastered LE market collapse shows end of collectible era

"I think there is an arrogance in Pinball that we are above showing any sign that we were wrong. Right we got the demand wrong. We were making too many right it's price too high. I think there is a level of arrogance and unwillingness to bend by the Pinball manufacturers."

Pinball manufacturers are arrogant and won't admit when they're wrong about demand/pricing

"I've been saying this recently and people think I'm crazy. You know L.E.s will be worth $5,000 pretty soon. And I keep saying that we're now going to get to the point with the over saturation of games and there's so many games out there. You're going to start to see games that you think you know you we're going to start to see games go into the three and $4,000 range."

Pinball game values will crash - LEs will be worth $5000, some games will hit $3000-4000

"There's way too much prominence given to these damn toppers. I'm serious people. They don't matter."

Toppers don't matter and get too much prominence in streams

"Instead of buying a $15,000 pinball machine, call up your best pinball friend. Go get two first class tickets to Tokyo. Have some amazing meals in Tokyo for 10 days. Come back and that trip will benefit your life way more than a pinball machine."

Travel experiences are better investments than expensive pinball machines

"We need stuff to go up in value. We need stuff to go up in value to counteract the stuff that's lost so much value."

Pinball needs games to go up in value to counteract massive losses on most titles

"I don't think pinball collecting is very smart anymore, I really don't, I don't think spending $13 on an LE and heck $15,000 on a Jersey Jack CE, I just don't think it's smart"

Pinball collecting is no longer smart investment

"I mean, there is no healthy second hand market in pinball anymore. Across the board, only Metallica LE, one game. One game has a healthy second hand return for the buyer."

Pinball resale market collapse threatens the entire hobby