Stern Pinball

"The big move that's coming at Stern Pinball is they're going to want to bring downloadable content into every single game. So you're going to have to spend more money on your game. After you buy it, you think they're going to keep updating code for free? No, they're going to probably have these games come out around 1.0 code."

Spike 3 system is designed for downloadable content monetization, not better games

"The same price as a Stern Foo Fighter topper. The greed is real. The arrogance is real. And I think it's catching up the Stern Pinball. I think all of us are tired of it. I think the enthusiasm around that company and their new games is just dissipating really quickly."

Stern Pinball's pricing is greedy and disrespectful, comparing $2,000 Foo Fighter topper to furniture

"I think Stern Pinball is now a company that is just 100% out of touch with what people who supported them all these years want. They are out of touch with who the real community is that's going to keep them successful. They are out of touch with the people that are going to spend 7 to 13 thousand dollars on their products. And not only are they out of touch with us, they are treating us like we don't even matter."

Stern Pinball is completely out of touch with their core community and treating loyal customers like they don't matter

"I am not going to support Stern pinball. I don't even care. How are you going to come to New York City with a pinball press tour? Not even invite Jason Knapp... I'm so happy I'm selling my Batman SLE because I just want to be done with them until they make a move that shows us they care again about us."

Will not support Stern Pinball until they show they care about the community again

"It can't be only about the artwork in the game. It can't. And what I think I'm gonna articulate right now is the real reason why a lot of us are really angry at Stern Pinball. And this was just the final thing that lit off what's been brewing for a long time."

John Wick controversy isn't about guns - it's the final straw after years of greedy moves by Stern

"They significantly raised the prices on everything. They didn't raise the price on the BOM. They didn't put more into these games. And they just started charging more and more and more for less and less and less."

Stern has been making calculated greedy moves, raising prices while reducing content

"The person you go to to launch John Wick Pinball is some YouTuber named Beekong that no one's ever heard of. Who's never made any real significant pinball content in his life. Who has no followers that are pinheads."

Stern ignored pinball content creators for John Wick launch, using unknown YouTuber instead

"I just don't think they work anymore like this. Like, this is still the old way to launch a game where you're still trying to drive that FOMO and that urgency through the door... those days are over."

Stern's marketing approach is outdated and doesn't work in the current market

"Stern has beaten down their fan base over the last like three years with overpriced LEs, way too many LEs, and they don't seem to be cognizant of the vibes that have shifted dramatically around their company."

Stern has beaten down their fanbase with overpriced LEs and too many releases

"Because trust me, I speak more to Stern customers on a weekly, daily, and monthly basis than they even do. And so do all the other content creators out there."

Content creators know Stern customers better than Stern does

"They want to push us into this world where like Insider Connected and achievements are where we're gonna get the value... Because that's cheap for them to do... they want to take this highly physical kinetic game, take out most of the mechanical magic"

Stern wants to replace mechanical innovation with cheap digital features

"I'm sorry, but how can Stern Pinball in 2024 walk up to an Elton John machine and see what's possible from a modern lighting standpoint in Pinball and then try to sell us this like bag of like Tic Tac lights for like $13,000?"

Stern's lighting system is poor and outdated compared to competitors

"And I think they're destroying this hobby. I think they're destroying their very own business model and it's just not gonna work."

Stern is destroying the pinball hobby and their own business model

"I think Stern Pinball is almost setting up all of its designers to somewhat deliver underwhelming games. And what I mean by that is at this price point, seven to $13,000. I don't think Stern Pinball has increased the bomb of their machines enough so these designers can actually put enough into these games to justify games costing that much."

Stern is setting up designers to fail by not increasing BOM while raising prices dramatically

"Like a Stern machine at this much money should look more like a Jersey Jack machine. It should have better lighting. It should have more mechanisms in it."

Stern machines at current prices should look more like Jersey Jack machines with better lighting and more mechanisms

"I don't think any modern Stern ever is ever going to be worth $13,000 for an LE or $9,500 for a premium. I don't care what they put into these games. These games are all so overpriced"

Modern Stern pinball machines are overpriced regardless of features

"The majority of Stern LEs that have sold for $13,000 within a year, the majority of them have gone down to being worth $10,000"

Modern LE machines are losing the most value of all pinball variants

"Seriously, when you think about it, it's like, thank you, Stern Pinball, for bringing out a game that's geared towards men that like action movies."

Current Stern themes don't appeal to core demographic - John Wick is a rare exception aimed at men who like action movies

"at the end of the day, Stern Pinball makes the best decision. Stern Pinball has been consistently bringing out the best Pinball machines over the last 20 years. They've consistently put the best code into Pinball machines. They consistently have the best designers in Pinball"

Stern Pinball consistently makes the best decisions and games in pinball

"stern needs a hit game, if this is another Venom, and this game is like 13 grand and 1000 LEs, I think stern is in big trouble because I'm talking to distros, and they're canceling their orders"

Stern needs John Wick to be a hit or they're in big trouble

"I still think John Wick is going to struggle. I don't think Stern's pricing model works very well. I think people are just getting into jaws. People are finally enjoying James Bond on Final Code. It's just too much. You can't ask these people to keep dropping 13 and $10,000 game after game after game after game"

John Wick will struggle because Stern's pricing model doesn't work

"you can go get a Black Knight Pro Remade by Stern Pinball in the new factory, where the quality is not as good as the old factory"

Stern's new factory has lower quality than old factory

"I'm hearing that Stern pinball has a fully designed game, right? The game is done and they are going to turn this game into a commercial product for us to buy. Here's the problem that this game doesn't even have a theme yet... This is as lazy as it gets."

Stern Pinball is designing games without themes first, then acquiring themes to slap on top

"Stern pinball does not make high-end stuff. They are the Honda Civic of pinball. They're the mass-produced product. They are not capable of commanding these prices on every single game."

Stern Pinball cannot justify premium pricing - they're mass market, not high-end

"I still don't think Stern has these juggernaut themes... So I think Stern Pinball might be playing catch up, especially if the rumors are true."

Stern Pinball doesn't have juggernaut themes and might be playing catch up to competitors

"One shooter knob from Stern Pinball that they can make in a nanosecond. One shooter knob is the price of four years of Kaneda's Pinball Podcast."

Stern's $225 shooter knob costs more than four years of Kaneda's Pinball Podcast subscription

"I'm just exhausted by Stern and their greediness, and the apologist who defend these moves... Stern Pinball thinks we're all idiots. These are idiot prices."

Stern Pinball has become excessively greedy with accessory pricing, charging $2000 for Foo Fighters topper vs $500 for original Black Knight topper

"What's going to sting people is when you spent $13,000 on those games and they slide all the way down to like $8,500. And now you're losing $4,500. You're losing $4,500 on a single Stern. Nobody's used to that kind of loss."

Stern LE prices will continue to drop significantly, causing major losses for buyers

"The moment you're all on Insider connected, guess what's going to happen one day? They're going to flip a switch and you're going to have to pay a monthly subscription fee to play your Stern pinball machine. They're going to start charging you every month for new modes and new this and new achievements and you're going to pay for all that."

Stern will eventually charge monthly subscription fees through Insider Connected

"Stern's lighting system is so outdated and they just don't have it. Like Jersey Jack has it. Like they have the ability to make that John Wick atmosphere pop... Their lighting is like 20 years old and outdated. They haven't done anything truly innovative."

Stern's lighting system is outdated and they lack innovation

"it only goes in one direction, it's only going from left to right and then the shark apparently swims backwards to start over again. Stern pinball really crushing it with their mechanisms people."

Stern's shark fin mechanism only goes one direction and is poorly designed

"Ever since Stern moved into the new factory, it's not just the playfields. The quality of the builds has gone downhill. I have a lot of friends who bought like Elvira when they made that in the new factory. Nothing but issues. I'm looking at these stranger things playfields and they're terrible."

Stern's build quality has gone downhill since moving to the new factory

"I'm a little worried over at Stern these days because they don't really have the engineering power anymore. Their head of engineering went over to Jersey Jack Pinball for a reason, and I heard he quit because he was not happy with the stuff that was going into Jaws Pinball"

Stern lacks engineering power compared to their past, citing head engineer leaving for Jersey Jack

"And over time, we're going to get used to Keith Elwin designs. He's not always going to be able to wow you. It's the same way with art. When Zombie Eddie came onto the scene, it blew you away. Now we've had so many Zombie Eddie games, it no longer has the same impact. The same is true of Keith Elwin. Because what Stern doesn't have over there, they don't have any mechanical engineering people that are wowing us."

Stern is over-relying on Keith Elwin and lacks mechanical innovation

"The fact that we now have to hack up these expensive Stern games to do the work that they should have done at the factory, I don't know why that excites anybody. I really don't. And I think Stern's starting to rely on the mod community, which is why they've stopped sending out season to CIS letters and stuff. They'd rather you do the work because they'll make money off of your work."

Aftermarket mods let Stern off the hook for incomplete designs

"Part of me feels like Stern is doing this on purpose. I think they want to control the supply of LE's and trickle them out to maintain their value a little bit better. I don't think they want them all to hit it once."

Stern deliberately controlling LE supply to maintain value

"All of these Stern machines are expensive and they weigh a hundred pounds less than Jersey Jack machines. They need to just put some dumbbells inside those games to make them feel as solid"

Stern Pinball games are overpriced and feel less solid than Jersey Jack games

"How ridiculous is it that Stern Pinball cannot release a topper for a brand new game within a single year? Like it takes them 365 days after the game is developed to get a topper out into the world?"

Stern Pinball's topper development process is unacceptably slow and overpriced

"you look at the stern machines next to an Elton John and I mean this when I say it, they look like tinker toys. They look like cheap, cheap tinker toys next to Elton John."

Elton John makes Stern machines look cheap

"pros are not for hoes. Pros are for smart people... LE, LE now stands for the loser edition, because you're losing the most money out of everybody"

Stern pros are now the smartest financial buy while LEs have become 'loser editions'

"Stern makes the best Honda Civics on the planet. And every once in a while, they make a great version of a Honda Civic. But there's no way they can charge these prices consistently... You just stand over them and you feel them and you flip them. And even though the shots are there, they just feel cheap."

Stern machines are overpriced Honda Civics not worth $13,000

"the company that still executes the best and executes the most efficiently and actually makes new pinball machines every few months is no other than Stern Pinball. Everybody else is really chasing after Stern."

Stern Pinball executes better than all other manufacturers

"A Stern LE is twice the price of a Stern Pro. Twice the price. And what's different in the game? In upper playfield, it has the same exact software, the same lighting system. What are you really spending twice as much money on?"

Stern LEs are twice the price of Pros for minimal actual differences

"Has Stern pinball and Jersey Jack absolutely destroyed the collectability of pinball? Yes. Buying an LE is no longer a smart decision."

Stern Pinball and Jersey Jack have destroyed pinball collectability

"If I'm buying into a pinball brand and a pinball company, I feel way better about supporting Stern and buying a Stern because I know they're not gonna leave me with an unfinished product."

Stern Pinball is more reliable than Jersey Jack because they finish their games and don't abandon products

"The fact that he deleted those comments makes me believe Stern is about to pull some fast ones. And they don't want to be on the record for any such statement."

George Gomez deleting LE policy comments means Stern will screw collectors

"And now I'm worried Stern's going to mail out those cheap paper 3D glasses when you just dropped over $10,000 on a pinball machine. Come on, Stern. You always find a way to do the cheap way out."

Stern cheapens products by providing low-quality 3D glasses instead of premium branded ones for expensive Limited Edition games

"I agree with this new approach. I think this is the right way to go. I didn't like what they did with Jurassic Park 30th and screwing over the original LE owners"

Stern's new LE policy clarification is the right decision and addresses community complaints

"We've seen every single Stern LE that's been 13 K slide down to 10 K within a year. So that's a $3,000 loss in one year"

Recent Stern LEs are consistently losing $3000 in value within a year

"Stern lighting is in the stone age. Like they're lighting in their game is in bear on all their games. Like it's embarrassing"

Stern's lighting is embarrassingly bad compared to other manufacturers